The proposed expansion of the Narrows Saloon will be up for discussion at the Orono Planning Commission public hearing on Monday June 20th, 6:00 PM, at 2780 Kelley Parkway. The proposed expansion based on the plan filed with the city will include 30 seats for dining on the sidewalk facing Shoreline Drive & 84 dining seats, outside, on the rear side of the facility facing the municipal parking lot. The rear dining area would also include an outdoor bar. There will also be an expansion of interior dining, and a banquet room. As a resident living on Carman Road off of Kelly Avenue, I have serious concerns about the outdoor expansion. As it stands now there are serious noise issues affecting the residents on the northwest end of Kelly Avenue, without any expansion. We have also witnessed drunk & disorderly conduct on Kelly Avenue late in the evening or early morning hours.
If the Narrows were to discontinue offering live music late into the night or ending live music by 9:300 or 10:00, this would go a long ways towards alleviating some of my concerns. But offering liquor for sale at an outdoor bar, bordering a parking lot also seems to be ill advised, leading to a nightly block party in the municipal parking lot. This expansion of the Narrows can only lead to increased noise levels, and other undesirable behavior which most likely will spill over into family neighborhoods directly to the south and north of the Narrows Saloon.
Is this planned expansion creating the right direction & tone for future development in Navarre? Other commercial areas around the lake seem to be up scaling & leaving Navarre in the dust. Navarre in its current state is easily the most blighted commercial district in the Lake Minnetonka area. By expanding a biker bar to nearly double its current size will Navarre attract future commercial establishments that are conducive to a family oriented commercial area similar to Wayzata or Excelsior, or will Navarre be taking a path in a decidedly different direction? Is this what the Orono Planning Commission desires? Does the Orono Planning Commission have a vision for the future of Navarre?

List of concerns:

● How will order be maintained with an outdoor bar directly adjacent to a municipal parking lot? Will security be provided? Will the Narrows insure that drinking does not spill over into the parking lot?

● How does the Orono police department plan on dealing with another popular drinking establishment expanding in close proximity to Lord Fletchers? Have they been consulted? Will there be a cross flow of intoxicated drivers? Will they need extra man-power on summer weekend nights? Can the city of Orono afford extra man-power?

● How will the increased noise level be monitored? Will the Narrows have any noise or time of day limitations placed on its outdoor activity?

● Private parties have to shut down outdoor live music at 10:00 PM, should the Narrows be subjected to the same restrictions?

● Who owns the property on which the outdoor dining will be situated? If this is public property should the public not have a direct say as to its usage?

● Is there enough room for seated dining, and pedestrians on the sidewalk facing Shoreline Drive?

● From my understanding, the increased size of the facility will require 80 parking spots in the municipal parking lot, of which 120 are available. During lunch hours will other commercial businesses have parking available for their customers? How will the municipal parking lot usage be increased by the new coffee shop with its attached deck currently under construction?

I would be interested in seeing the concerns of other residents, posted on this forum, as a form of documentation, that the members of the Orono planning commission can review. Hopefully we can take the best concerns and present them to the Orono planning commission meeting on Monday, June 20th, and any future meetings, and make sure our voices are heard.

A side note: The owners of the Narrows Saloon were contacted & invited to a gathering of Kelly Avenue residents. They were personally invited by word of mouth and a written invitation. They said they would meet with residents to discuss the proposed expansion. The owners failed to attend the meeting or inform the residents that they would be unable to attend the meeting. You can take this for what it's worth, but it is worth noting.

Contact info: If you are interested in contacting any of the Orono City Council or Planning Commission members please go to this web address for contact info: http://www.ci.orono.mn.us/Elected%20Officials.htm

Copied below is Chuck Nadlers letter on behalf of \"Neighbors For a Better Navarre\" that was sent to the Orono Planning Commission.


June 16, 2005

Orono Planning Commission
Orono City Council
Orono Planning Staff

RE: Application # 05-31-21
Interior Expansion of Conditional Use and Exterior Creation of New outdoor
Front patio and rear deck for Drinking and Eating - Narrows Saloon

Dear Commission, Council and Staff;

I am writing this letter on behalf of Neighbors For a Better Navarre, a growing organization of concerned residents, the majority of whose members currently reside on or around Kelly Avenue. We have received and reviewed Applicant’s plans for this proposed expansion at a meeting called especially for that purpose Tuesday night, June 14. Applicant was invited to present their case and agreed to do so but decided not to attend without notifying us.

Here is a list of our concerns:

1. We strongly urge the City Of Orono to place a moratorium on development in Downtown Navarre and develop a vision and plan for this small area that we can all live with and be proud of. We first requested this in April, 2004 when the ill conceived Restaurant/Bar was proposed by Mike Keaveny and Paul Ode. It is even more relevant today. Granting this massive interior and exterior expansion of the Saloon, with outdoor party decks and an outdoor bar will set the retail tone for Downtown Navarre for decades to come. We believe granting this request will lead to even more bars desiring to locate at this intersection and drive out more desirable development. The fact that the Keaveny property is ripe for development and the addition of Lund’s ownership of Rick’s Market reinforce the common sense of the city creating a plan. There are already serious traffic and noise pollution issues in downtown Navarre. This is the time for the City of Orono to be proactive and show leadership, not just to react to every request that comes along, which will only lead to the further deterioration of Navarre. While physically far from Orono City Offices, we are still a part of the city, pay tax dollars to the city and deserve the attention of the Planning Commission, Council and staff in developing a sensible plan.

2. In the event you decide not to place a moratorium, we believe that current problems with the applicant’s operation must be addressed in conjunction with granting any approval. There is loud noise that emanates from the property late into the night when the doors are opened and the homes near the Saloon literally vibrate when a “hot band” is playing. Chopper noise late at night and public drunkenness that spews down Kelly Avenue is also a problem.

3. Here are our concern s with the specifics of the plan itself:

The front patio should not be approved. First, there is no room for it unless the parking along Shoreline Drive is eliminated which would hurt other retailers. Currently, the plan shows only 7 feet from the end of the patio to the curb. However, an open car door takes three feet and the new vestibule, with the door swung open takes another two feet. Therefore, at that narrowest point, there is only a two foot walkway. How is there any room for decorative trees even in the wider parts of the sidewalk? Why would the city want to grant such a plan that so greatly impinges on the pedestrian right of way?
In addition, while the applicant claims that the vestibule will eliminate noise from the establishment, the reality is that there are two new doors that have no vestibule and the applicant has a practice of leaving existing door open on many nights. Further, the vestibule interior and exterior doors will constantly be open simultaniously with patrons and food/beverage server traffic which will allow noise to escape. If you do approve this part of the plan, we believe you need to require the patio be closed by 10 PM every night, that no outdoor speakers be allowed and that if residents complain of excessive noise that it be closed permanently.

The rear deck, holding 88 new seats, and an outdoor bar should not be approved until it is confirmed by the city 1. that there is adequate parking in the municipal lot to accommodate this greatly expanded use and the new coffee shop 2. that it is good public policy to dedicate 80% of the municipal parking to this one use and literally foreclose any future major users on that side of the street in Navarre 3. that the police are consulted and confirm that they have the ability and the manpower to handle another popular drinking establishment like Lord Fletchers, and if not, can Orono afford additional police officers? 4. that the applicant come up with a noise abatement plan. 5. that there be no outdoor speakers. 6. that there be no outdoor bar. 7. that the deck be closed by 10 PM nightly.

The Neighbors For a Better Navarre believe that strict, enforceable rules be made a part of and conditions of granting any outdoor activity to the applicant. This applicant does not have a good track record of controlling noise and drunkenness. Applicant claims it is trying to make the facility a family friendly restaurant and there will be no disturbing noise or negative impact outside his facility. If this is the case, it should welcome a set of conditions that ensures that that will be the case.

In closing, we prefer that a moratorium be enacted and a plan created. In the event that is not going to happen, we believe the proposed expansion should be reduced significantly in scope, especially the outdoor component, and strict conditions be attached to any expansion.


Very Truly Yours,


Charles E. Nadler
Neighbors For a Better Navarre

Tom

Hopefully I will be there this evening; we have relatives visiting so I will do my best.

I think you have captured the two-fold essence of the situation. Obviously this particular expansion has its own issues of concern for us in this family neighborhood. However, I think it is all part of the much larger scale matter of planning for the Navarre area altogether; simply put, are we moving forward in the manner in which we want? Especially when other local areas are choosing more attractive paths.

Thanks for all of your effort in this.

I oppose any outdoor expansion of the Narrows. While it is nice to have the live bands there, I see no need to allow for a bar and outdoor seating on a roadway and parking lot. Unlike Fletchers on the lake, there would be no reason for anyone to sit there unless they can drink and listen to (loud) music. At the Narrows, the music definitely carries to residential neighborhoods - as I've heard it from there before when there was some sort of block party in the lot. I don't want to be forced to close my windows on a beautiful summer evening because their music is too loud.

Regardless of whether the expansion is inside or out, I agree that the concern of increased traffic between Fletcher's and the Narrows at night must be addressed.

Sorry I couldn't make the meeting.

The Narrows provides good food and entertainment. However I believe an expansion of any kind should be denied. We already have way to much noise from extremely loud bikes plus speeding. The Narrows is a main stop for many bikers and we don't neet to attract more.

The meeting went reasonably well, the details of the meeting are as follows.

1.) Expansion was tabled, applicant must come to the next meeting with a revised plan.

2.) No front side outside dining.

3.) No exterior kitchen addition.

4.) Reduce size of outside dining in back. (it was at 84 seats)

5.) All exterior activity except smoking ceases at 10:00 or 11:00 PM (to be determined). No food or alcohol served outside after this time.

6.) Exterior walls or beariers in rear should be constructed so as to reduce noise traveling into neighborhood area to north of the Narrows Saloon.

7.) Two door vestibule system added to front of building, built into structure not on sidewalk.

I would like to clear up the misconception that the residents opposed to the Narrows Saloon expansion are opposed to the Narrows Saloon in any form. I think most of us appreciate having a restaurant/bar in Navarre. Most of us are opposed to the further expansion of the noise factor.

The noise is coming from the bar after the dining patrons have left. I did not hear one person at the meeting testify that they loved to hear live music at the Saloon. Where are all those customers? I suspect they were not present because they are for the most part from outside our neighborhood. This use of the Narrows Saloon falls outside of the Orono Comprehensive Plan. I question whose interests the Planning Commission is serving. The members of the planning commission all said they like eating at the Saloon. That's well and fine. Not one of them has any experience trying to get a good nights sleep down the street.

The Orono Planning Commission has not enforced the CUP (Conditional Use Permit) issued in 2000. They have not enforced it in any matter and almost everyone concerned, even the owner has admitted they have not been in compliance. If they have been unable to enforce the current CUP what guarantee do the residents have that they would enforce any CUP going forward? The exterior dining is supposed to be on a trail basis. Essentially another CUP. I suggest that an CUP needs to be accompanied by an explicit system for handling noise and other complaints, and how the CUP is enforced if the Narrows is out of compliance.

As it stands now the Narrows Saloon has not complied with the CUP, and instead of being punished, they are being rewarded with further expansion.

It looks as if the residents living to the North of the Narrows Saloon will be the most affected by any exterior dining expansion. They need to get organized and show up in force if they want to keep the expansion, hours & noise within reasonable levels.

It appears that the members of the Planning Commission are so desirous of a successful business in Navarre that they are willing to put the blinders on and ignore the laws on the books, (as well as the Chief of Police).

Sidenote: The Narrow Saloon website includes this copy \"The Narrows Saloon is the hottest music bar & restaurant in town........the best variety of live music west of Chicago!\". Does this exemplify an estblishment designed to serve local residents as described in the Comp plan, or does it serve residents that are coming to Navarre from many miles away.

Sidenote 2: Many people at the meeting took great offense at my description of the Narrows Saloon as a \"biker bar\". I find this curious, because the estblishment has a sign in back specifically designating a certain area for \"Harley Parking Only\". Who is this sign for? Is it not for bikers?

Tom,

What did the Planning Committee do relative to the Narrows Bar exppznxion?

Time for an update.

Sorry this is so late, summer & family have been keeping me from posting.

July 18th meeting:

The tone of the meeting was much different than the June meeting. The applicant's revised plan was not revised sufficiently and was tabled again. The applicant again applied for seating in the front of the Narrows Saloon even though it was pretty obvious at the June meeting that this would not fly. The new plan also called for 60 seats outside in the rear which was deemed to be too much by the planning commission.

Most of the discussion centered around sound abatement in the rear and parking considerations for the increased size of the Narrows Saloon. Parking needs for the Narrows will nearly double just for the interior expansion alone.

As is stands now the applicant is required to contract a parking study which will then be reviewed by Orono's parking engineer. They will have to submit a revised plan with no seating in the front & somewhere around 30 seats in the back (provided the parking study shows the lot can accomadate the required parking). For now we wait to see if the applicant gets the parking study completed, submitted & reviewed by Orono. It is questionable wether this could be accomplished before the next meeting on August 15th.

Other news: Orono has enacted a 1 year moratorium on development in the Navarre commercial district. This does not affect the Narrows Saloon as that plan was already in process.

Chuck Nadler, Marcia Freese and I met with Lili MacMillan from the council. We discussed the Narrows expansion and the future of Navarre. Over the next year the council will be developing a vision/plan for Navarre. The public will be involved in some way or another in the devolpment of that plan.

We are attempting to create a database of local residents with an interest in the development of Navarre. Marcia will be calling anyone who signed the July 18th petition to get their email addresses for the database. The database will help us contact people in a timely manner and keep everyone up to date on important info. Much thanks to Chuck Nadler for his never-ending efforts, and to Marcia Freese for her presentation to Lili MacMillan comparing Navarre to other local retail areas.

Sorry this post is a bit brief. If anyone needs more details about a specific concern, please post here and I will try to fill you in.

As of September 16th, I have obtained and reviewed the latest proposal for the expansion of the Narrows Saloon. If you care to see it for yourself you can click on this link http://www.loweprofile.com/misc/narrows ... .19.05.pdf to view it on line. Or right click and choose save Target As..., to save to your hard drive.


The proposal asks for 32 additional exterior dining seats in the rear, and a tripling of the size of the interior dining. They have completed a parking study which was then reviewed by a firm hired by the city of Orono. This firm wrote a fairly negative review of the parking study, suggesting that it would pretty much max out the parking lot and leave no room for future business, as well as many other concerns. I have highlighted in red areas on the PDF that I found interesting. Besides the fact that the current striping of the parking lot is out of compliance with current code (the stalls are 4' too short) the lot is also supposed to provide parking for Park & Ride customers. Anyone who has experienced the morning rush hour on Hiway 15 knows it is becoming increasingly important that Orono address traffic problems in the area. The municipal lot may need to designate more space in the future to Park & Ride customers.

I also feel that the outdoor seating in the rear is going to create a noise problem for the residents living behind the Narrows Saloon and this still is not being addressed adequately. All proposals for seating in the front of the building have now been eliminated. Please review the archetectural drawing (page 6) in the PDF to see the layout. If you have concerns of your own I would suggest & encourage you to attend the meeting on Monday September 19th at 6:00 pm. I am guessing that the applicants will attempt to have a large turnout in support of the expansion at this meeting.